When I heard that Trent Harris, one of America's premier cult directors, of such films as
Rubin and Ed,
Plan 10 from Outer Space and
The Beaver Trilogy
would be in New York for his traveling mini-retro, I couldn't help but
feeling giddy like a little kid on his first day of school. I was an
awkward kid, both growing up in Korea and later here in the US. So the
outsiders, heroic misfits, if you will, in Harris's films, however over
the top and ridiculous they are, always have a special place in my
heart.
In person, I found Harris easygoing, guileless and incredibly open. The
following interview is an excerpt from our hour-long lunch conversation:
we talked about everything from his tumultuous career ("career sounds
too successful," he laughed), Hollywood, Sean Penn, Mitt Romney and
Mormonism, internet, guilt, art, love, to the future of filmmaking over
bar food at Molly's on 3rd on a seasonably mild and sunny Saturday
afternoon. In this profession, you get to meet your heroes for twenty
minutes at a time if you are lucky. And I count myself very lucky to
have had an hour with Harris, sharing fried calamari and even got a huge
hug from him as we parted. There is nothing more I adore than never
ending enthusiasm of a creative mind. Harris definitely has plenty of
that.
Trent
Harris Traveling show continues its journey to Austin, Denver, Seattle this summer and Chicago this fall.
I just have to tell you that when I was in college in the 90s, Rubin
and Ed was always the most popular choice for me and my friends to put
on whenever we got high. So it's a real honor to meet you.
Oh well, thanks. (laughs)
How
do you think the screening the other day went? This mini retro of yours
is traveling from LA to New York and some other places...
Yeah
I thought it really went well. Some places show two movies and some
places show three. So it's gonna go, what is it, LA, New York, Austin,
Denver, Seattle...
I believe Chicago is in there too.
You
know this better than me. It's all Galen (Rosenthal, former film
programmer of SAIFF and long time friend/supporter). That guy is
amazing. He just sets everything up.
So it was Galen's idea.
It
was totally Galen's idea. I would've never done it in a million years.
You know, his attitude is 'everybody thinks you are dead, so let's...'
(laughs)
I
can't interview you without asking you about the Beaver Trilogy. For
those who don't know about it, could you tell us how it came about?
I
walked out into a parking lot one day, I was walking at a television
station in Salt Lake, and I was testing a camera. It was the first time I
picked up this brand spanking new thing called 'video camera'. I was
just out there and I focused on this kid (Groovin' Gary) wandering
around the parking lot. The first time you see him is the actually the
first time I saw him. You know he is a funny guy, doing impersonations
and stuff. Then he invites me down for a talent show and I come down.
Anyway,
that movie, a little documentary, I thought it was great: it was the
first time in my life that I was capturing something that was happening
spontaneously in front of me.
You do a lot of documentaries though. You've been doing it for living, no?
Yeah
I've done a lot. But seldom you get that kind of encounter, even in
documentaries. It's usually like you interview people and they tell you
about the past. Unless you were interviewing me and I was having a
complete mental breakdown at that moment, then it would be a very
different interview.
Right.
Anyway, he shot himself
not long after I've done that original film. Then I moved to Los
Angeles and I had the Beaver kid story that was bugging me that I wanted
to tell, so I began to remake it. I made it with Sean Penn first and
then with Crispin Glover. Each one's a little different yet all very
similar. The last time I saw it ,I was thinking: you got the original
kid impersonating Olivia Newton John and then you got Sean Penn
impersonating the kid impersonating Olivia Newton John then you got
Crispin Glover impersonating Sean Penn impersonating... you know. It's
like this wild Möbius loop.
That's so meta. How did Sean Penn come into the picture? Did he audition?
I literally just called him on the phone. He was doing
Fast Times at Ridgemont High at the time and he wasn't a big star yet. He wanted to work, and he thought it was an interesting idea.
Sean Penn was the choice among all the other actors you saw?
I
couldn't find anybody. It was a very difficult role to cast because it
comes across as pretty ludicrous if it's not done right. I read a lot of
people, Eric Stoltz, Anthony Edwards, trying to find somebody that
could do it. Sean Penn did it. He didn't want to audition. He told me he
would be my cousin from Idaho and follow me around for couple of days
in character. So he followed me around and I introduced him to people as
my cousin. He did it really well. Couple years later people kept
telling me, "wow, your cousin really got famous." And then Crispin came
along. I was going to cast Crispin in a smaller part but when going for
the third time, I thought of Crispin doing the lead instead.
I've
been a big fan of Crispin throughout his career. You've made The
Trilogy and Rubin and Ed with him. How did you find him and are you guys
friends?
Well, I think I met him in the casting. After I shot him in
The Beaver Trilogy, We'd become good friends for at least 10 or 11 years. Then of course he was perfect for the role of Rubin in
Rubin and Ed.
I like to work with the same people over and over again, if I can, you
know. There is a notion of working with family: even the crew, it's the
same people who are more like family.
So you worked in Hollywood for a while. How was that experience?
It
was horrible. It was the worst 13 years I've spent in my whole life.
I've never been more unhappy in my entire life. Every cliché you've ever
heard about Hollywood is true: the cigar chomping producers, the big
breasted bimbos, the back stabbing, dishonesty- being your friend a
minute and then not... all of that stuff's true. After 13 years I have
one person that I cared enough about to still keeping contact with. You
know in Salt Lake I have a lot of friends. But making real friends in LA
is impossible.
How is Salt Lake City as a film town?
Well,
there isn't a lot going on in there. I mean, Hollywood crews come in
there and shoot because of the location. But as far as filmmakers in
Salt Lake, no. There is one other guy but he kind of pulled back. I
mean, there are a some filmmakers who come from there and have gone on.
Oddly enough, Neil LaButte-
Huh, is he from Salt Lake?
I don't know if he's from Salt Lake, but he went to BYU, the big Mormon University. Isn't that strange? His movies are so tough.
Tell me about you almost running over Mitt Romney with your car.
Your
heard about that? (laughs). Yeah it was in downtown Salt Lake not too
long ago. He came out of nowhere and I hit the breaks just in time. And
there was Romney. My god, the expression on his face was priceless. He
obviously didn't know who the hell I was, because you know, he is
fucking Mitt Romney.
Does he have a house in Salt Lake?
Where
doesn't he have a house? No, I think he has a house up in Deer Valley, a
fancy resort town in Utah. He ain't 47 percent of us, that's for sure.
It's funny when he was running for president, everyone was asking who
the real Mitt Romney was. Always smiling and seeming totally
disingenuous. The thing is, that's who he really is. That's how Mormons
are!
How does The Mormonism fit into your career as a filmmaker? Obviously you made Plan 10 From Outer Space.
That's
about it. I mean, it's not the subject I wanna repeat again. I had an
idea and it was great fun to make and I liked the script. I think it
might be my favorite one. People always say make Rubin and Ed part 2,
make Plan 11. The thing is, I don't like to go back. I'd rather do
something different every time I make new films. It's gotta really
interest me to take on in the first place, because it takes a long time
and energy. So I don't like to go backwards.
It seems the
Beaver Trilogy wouldn't die though. It came out in 2000. Now it's coming
out again. It doesn't want to let you go .
You know it's
always continually playing somewhere. I mean there is no publicity
behind it. It's all word of mouth. Yet there is a constant interest in
that film.
How come it's not marketed widely?
There's
all kind of issues- copyright issues, legal issues are not resolved
because when I was shooting that I never thought anything would happen
with it. It's not like we've signed bunch of papers or anything.
You didn't get the rights for the Olivia Newton John song? (laugh)
No.
I mean it's so expensive. You can't even imagine. There was a DVD
company which was going to do it and pick up the music rights then
everything fell apart.
Was it because of Sean Penn?
Well,
yeah. I couldn't quite figure that out. It's not like he doesn't like
the movie. He likes the movie. I think it's because he felt like he is
being exploited.
Oh come on!
No I think that's what
he felt. You know that tiny piece of music, "The Happiest Girl in the
USA"? Just for that section? 20 grand.
What?
Just for that. That's what they are asking.
The
first time I heard of The Trilogy was when I listened to This American
Life and you being interviewed there by Starlee Kine, then I saw the
movie.
Oh really?
So I wasn't going in cold feet.
So my experience must've been different then people who just saw the
movie. The movie does have that symbiotic relationship with This
American Life though. Since I've heard it before seeing it, I can not
separate the two. Listening to it has really strengthened the experience
at least for me. So I hear your story on how it came about first. And
that story is so fascinating. I was wondering if you were making the
other two movies as a sort of therapy for yourself.
Yeah. I
was trying to work it out in different ways. It's not necessarily a
therapy for me. But I really wanted to give the kid a happy ending. And
after I did the Sean one, it still wasn't a happy ending. I basically
wanted him to win. So I made the third one and he tells everyone to piss
off and drives away.
Right right.
So that was part of it for sure.
If
you can tell us what really happened to the real "Gary/Larry (Richard
Lavon Griffiths)" after you met him at Sundance- which is also a great
story by the way?
Well, he had a massive heart attack. I'm
not exactly sure the year...it might have been 2009, 2010. I can't
remember now. It was a couple years back. He had a massive heart attack.
During that time, he was driving a truck, carrying pigs to a
slaughterhouse. There is a big slaughter house in Beaver. Beaver is
known for those big factory agro-businesses. That was his job. There is
not a lot to do there.
So he stayed there in Beaver.
He was actually living in the town next to it called Minersville.
Are you friends with his family?
I
know his sister and her family but only through email. They seem like a
very nice people. He had some close friends. He really touched people.
They contacted me for his funeral. But I couldn't go. I didn't want to
be seen as this big filmmaker and them paying attention to me. I didn't
want his funeral to be about me or the movie.
He was such a charming guy.
I wish I had a picture of his gravestone with me so I can show it to you. It has the engravings of his car on it.
He drove the same car? The big Chevy Impala?
Yeah. Isn't that Something?
Somewhere I read that you were the one of the first filmmakers to embrace the internet.
You
know I was. I can't say definitively that I was the first but I was one
of the very first. Maybe someone was doing it all along then, but I
don't know if anyone else did. (laughs) When I premiered
Plan 10 from Outer Space at Sundance, I can't remember what year that was...1994? we actually had an internet press conference.
Wow.
And
nobody had computers back then. So there were about 3 people in the
world- somebody in Australia, somebody in LA and some geek at MIT or
something and we had this little internet world conference for the first
time. It was through University of Utah and they had satellite set up....
The way I got into that was because the special effects people who worked on
Plan 10.
They were the same people who were doing effects for Star Trek the TV
show. Because they were my friends, they just did it for me. They called
in to show me this new thing called internet. God, it was so slow. They
were trying to load Rolling Stones site and it took them ten minutes
just to load. (laughs) But these guys were techies. They knew what was
coming. So they created a website for
Plan 10. But nobody could see them because it was just that new.
I
totally understand that this is a small scale traveling show where
there are only three of your films playing- The Beaver Trilogy, Rubin
and Ed & Plan 10. But I really want to see your other films. They
are very hard to find.
There's a couple of them on my website.
Delightful Water Universe and I made another one called
The Cement Ball of Earth, Heaven and Hell. And I got this another one called
Luna Mesa.
It's done but I haven't put it out yet. I still...I don't know, I got
some really ambivalent feelings about how I feel about the movie. Parts
of it are fucking cool and then other parts are like boom!
Todd Brown, the founder of Twitch, the website I write for, saw it at Raindance and really seemed to like it.
Oh really? That makes me feel better, because many people told me, "oh this is a headscratcher, really."
I'm
really curious about that movie. You shot it in Cambodia, Sierra Leone,
Rwanda, Thailand, Mexico, Tanzania... How did this come about?
It's
a very strange movie. I mean it's a narrative but also a documentary.
There is this girl (Liberty Valentine) that I care, adore, love, am just
totally head over the hills, just gaga over. But there is no
relationship. I am 25, no, 30 years older than she is, practically. But
we get along like crazy. We are interested in the same stuff and she is
very talented. So we started making this movie.
What happened
was that, I'd sell a story for a documentary in Cambodia and since it's
paid by the show that I'm working on, I grab Liberty and go there and
shoot their documentary and I get couple of days or weeks to shoot this
thing on the side. In a strange way it's about this documentary about
this relationship we had but it doesn't look like a documentary as it
develops. That's part of the reason that it's hard for me to know what
people think because I am so close to it. I am in this because I kind of
had to be, because there is no way I can take the crew to all these
places. So I fell into the movie more ways than one.
So it's a really personal film.
Oh absolutely. It's actually really painful. I mean, it's an unrequited love sort of movie.
May I ask what happened after the movie, with you and Liberty?
Oh
we are still good friends. I don't see her much anymore. Because I just
backed away from her. It was sort of hopeless. It's not that I dislike
her. I still think she is great and she thinks I'm great. But I just had
to get some distance from it. But she is incredibly supportive. She is
an incredibly talented world class modern dancer. She worked with
Nikolais, Ririe Woodbury and other companies. She injured herself at
some point, as dancers often do. But I wanted to use her dancing skills
in the movie and it's all there. I'll get you a copy. Just remind me.
I'd love to get one. So what are you working on now?
I'm doing a movie called
Welcome to the Rubber Room. Galen is producing it.
Is it about High School teachers?
It's
the second time someone asked me that. Starlee mentioned it. No. It's a
kind of a strange beatnik nightclub that's full of eccentrics, and it's
the last night that this place is open. It's going to be shut down and
turned into a yuppified art gallery. So it's about that and their kind
of wild efforts to save it.
Sounds great!
Traveling Trent Harris mini-retro continues:
Denver Film Society
Denver, CO June 7-8
Alamo Drafthouse
Austin, TX June 10-11
Grand Illusion Theater
Seattle, WA July 26-Aug 1st
Block Museum of Art
Chicago, IL This Fall
Please visit
Harris's website for more information on his films.
Listen to This American Life Episode on
The Beaver Trilogy by Starlee Kine
here.
My review of The Beaver Trilogy.